[lizzi]

Gentlemen and Ladies. This is why girls like bad boys. This is why so many of you claim that nice guys finish last.

You know the scenario. Loner, rebel... hard to pin down, mister playa, pimp man meets innocent, good-hearted, sweet and smart, little girl. Gives up leather jacket and joins the track team. Blah blah, insert happy ending here:

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The idea of taming that testosterone monster- the malest of males- being that one special reason for them to change... that’s bigger than any "my penis is bigger than your penis" testament. That speaks volumes about how fucking cool a girl is. And every girl wants to feel that cool- I don’t care if they admit it out loud or not.

And there you have it. Sorry if you were hoping for something more deep, involved and emo. That is the attraction to the bad boy. Just the possibility of turning his colors. It is all about self-worth and validation...

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That this guy knows, you know- fuck- EVERYBODY knows, that he could go out and get whoever he wanted in any capacity at any time, but yep, that’s right- he only wants you.

But not only does he want you... he wants you to want him in the same way. He wants to be the man you deserve. AND he actually makes an effort to be that guy. Not in that he changes who is deep down inside... but that he pushes all that surface level BS out of the way and actively shares who is at the core.

So much so that he does give up all that casual, meaningless sex. Not because he doesn’t want it anymore- but because he respects and cares about you enough to never hurt or wrong you like that. He waits for you. He wants to take it slow too. Because it’s not about sex with you. It’s more. It’s everything.

Everything.

Now that’s some powerful shit.
Idealistic, yes. Hard to find, yes. Seemingly impossible, yes. But that’s what we want.

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Us lady-folk want to think that we "conquered" you just as much as you want to think that you "won" us. That we were your incentive to change. That we stole your heart- and that it was hard to do.

I mean... if it's easy- it's BORING. Those feelings of pride and accomplishment are very real and very intertwined in finding someone to build a quality relationship with. It has nothing to do with being nice- it has to do with being real, being candid and being important.

Everyone wants to have a story worth telling... so fucking give her one.

[The Gunslinger]

1st post

As a guy that has been with his gf for over two years I like that my gf "conquered me."

The longest relationship I had ever been in before my current one was a month. Now I don't want to be one of those other types of guys anymore.

This post has been edited by The Gunslinger: Jun 1 2005, 01:27 PM

[scooter]

I've called the same thing the "Frog Prince" syndrome with my friends... same phenomenon

The whole fairy tale that her love can have such transformational abilities to make the frog into the Prince

And if the guy is already a Prince, well.. that's no fun

In reality, all she gets out of this is warts... and later in life when the guy is still a frog, she buys romance novels from Barnes and Noble bookstores

More Grim than Grimm if you ask me

[BBG]

I am sorry but that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life... If women look for self worth or a reason to feel like they have made a difference in a mans life, maybe they should volunteer at a homeless shelter or something. Its because of this challenge that women are all looking for, that most of them around my age end up with a child, a black eye, a bloody nose, bad credit, all kinds of stories about how "he was such and asshole and I didn't know it", a bunch of people saying I told you so, and a shit load of regret for passing up on that nice guy who would have treated her like a queen from day one. Even worse, sometimes that nice guy ends up taking her back and helps her raise a kid that he always hoped one day he would have with her but will never be his. I'm not bitter. Do I sound bitter?

[Sampson]

Women are stupid.

[silverbullit]

...and cut off your nuts while you're at it, and start calling yourself Gloria.

Nietzsche believed it is the slave mentality that emasculates men of their vitality and essential virility. Well, it would seem he was right, only the source of the slavery would now appear to be the bint lying next to you in your bed. The one who keeps nagging you not to go out with your friends as often, the one who keeps nagging you to save more to buy that big fucking concrete block in uptown (one just like the one Jim and Jane have), the one who keeps nagging you why you're not earning as much as Jim...the one who will leave in her wake an empty husk of a man....who is a man no longer.

The things some guys will do for a shag! Go and buy yourselves some pride, mofos!

Edit: who is Sandra Dee?

This post has been edited by silverbullit: Jun 1 2005, 02:27 PM

[scooter]

Nietzsche believed it is the slave mentality that emasculates men of their vitality and essential virility. Well, it would seem he was right
<snip>

Apart from being bonkers, Nietzsche's basically right - mankind as a whole loves to find easy answers instead of celebrating our own abilities - explains our affinity for demagogues, tinhorn dictators and religious figures who proclaim to have all the answers if only we listen and follow like sheep

(which reminds me -- Nietzsche got the bad rap as philosopher of the Nazis... when his entire concept of Superman was all about transcendence of the individual, not about creating some sort of "master race")

I'd argue both men and women do this same thing - takes different forms of course

The guy who nailed this for me was Carl Jung.

I remember after a bad breakup reading about the concept of projecting our anima/animus (female soul image in men, male soul image in women)

Readers Digest version: as a guy I carry around an 'ideal woman' archetype with me. When I really dig someone, I project this ideal on her... then after a few months I start to see the real 'her', and vice versa. You either try to make it work, or you dump her (or vice versa), and find your next 'true love'

That's the stuff of initial attraction, and it's pretty universal. It's how we deal with this that counts

Lots of the bad stuff - insecurity, jealousy, possessiveness, obsession - all relates to unwillingness or inability to confront our anima/animus, and deal with reality

Jung calls the confronting of these realities 'individuation'

The universality of the experience is connected to universality of myth and common factors in religions - we're all wired together, and we create myths to cope with difficult parts of our lives

Of course many (most?) people never deal with individuation, and perpetually re-enact projecting the anima/animus

In fact with any luck I'll go out Friday and project my anima in a few bars :rolleyes:

And when I mention Jung to my cousin (school psychologist), she just rolls her eyes... so take it all with a grain of salt.

[rick]

Meh. I will never be the "bad boy" -- unless I'm faking it... and that will always blow up in your face -- ALWAYS! -- so I could really care less... y'all wanna conquer teh bad boys, go for it... me, I'll be enjoying my brew with my friends and smiling at the cute girls...

[The Zot]

Meh.  I will never be the "bad boy" -- unless I'm faking it... and that will always blow up in your face -- ALWAYS! -- so I could really care less... y'all wanna conquer teh bad boys, go for it... me, I'll be enjoying my brew with my friends and smiling at the cute girls...

You weren't faking it last nite you bastard were you?! :o

[greyfox]

Okay, I'll accept Lizzi's explanation for the time being, but it does raise a question in my mind.

Why is it, when the guy punches the woman in the face, does she not realize that her plans at changing her man have failed?

As Sampson said, Women are stupid.

And why is it, that the nice guys see this self-destructive cycle. Watch as they get passed over time and time again, yet are still waiting for the chance when they can be "sloppy seconds"

Men are stupid.


In conclusion, we're all stupid.


P.S.
What would happen if this bad boy ever did change? The relationship would get boring. At mentioned before, the woman doesn't want an emasculated man. Therefore, it's time to move on to the next bad boy.

As a result, it would seem to me that the only way for a bad boy to remain in a relationship in the situation is to continue being the bad boy. To always be that unatainable goal. I'm no psychologist, but that sounds like one fucked up relationship.

This post has been edited by grey_fox24: Jun 1 2005, 03:56 PM

[J-Mah]

In conclusion, we're all stupid.

Best answer ever.

[divrekku]

I don't know about this....although I have a few things I'd like to point out, in my own personal experience.

1. I go out with my friends for the sole reason of looking for tail.

The whole point of this venture is to get yourself talking to a few different girls.
Never go after one girl, because it makes you look desperate. And when you do talk to the girl, act like you could care less about whether or not she's into you. Keep checking other girls out.
When you talk to her, offer her backhanded comments (not ones like "my God! You're so beautiful!", more like "I don't care what that guy said about you, you've got a nice ass"). This keeps her off balance and she doesn't get too confident. If you give her the first comment i mentioned, the first thing that pops into her mind is that she could do better than you.
Basically, act the jerk. Act like you don't care and you could do better.

The girls fall into this trap almost every time.

2. My only problem is this method works only for getting sex. If you ever want a meaningful relationship, this method will not work. If only for the simple fact that your personality you're showing her is not conducive to a long term contact. You will wear out your welcome eventually.

I'm at the point in my life right now where I don't like sleeping with girls I don't know that well. I'm not into going clubbing looking for the hook up. But I don't want a girlfriend yet either.

My solution is my girl friend. Notice the space between the two words. She's been a very good friend since high school. We know each other backward and forward, and to a lot of stuff together. We have the relationship where I can say or do anything in front of her and I don't have to worry about her holding it against me.

I know this doesn't work for everyone; we have an extremely unique situation. My point is you have to find someone who you treats you like you want to be treated and treat them the best you possibly can.

IRL, I am probably one of the nicest guys anyone can ever meet. Thats a lot of the reason as to why I no longer follow the Leykus 101 philosophy. Its not compatible with my personality.


I'm one of those guys who is always willing to help. Granted, this gave me problems at some points in my life, simply because people think they can take advantage of people like me. But you just have to know what you're looking for and see it for what it is when you do find what you're looking for.

[rick]

Meh.  I will never be the "bad boy" -- unless I'm faking it... and that will always blow up in your face -- ALWAYS! -- so I could really care less... y'all wanna conquer teh bad boys, go for it... me, I'll be enjoying my brew with my friends and smiling at the cute girls...

You weren't faking it last nite you bastard were you?! :o

Well, it did blow up in your face, didn't it! :omfg:

1. I go out with my friends for the sole reason of looking for tail.

That used to be me. Now, "picking up" is considered a fringe benefit... I go out because I enjoy sitting on a patio with a table full of drinks, telling tall tales and laughing at everything and everyone... or shooting the shit whilst drunk as fuck with the bartender(or barmaid) of my choice... I leave the dance floor to the little ones and the flocks of seagulls...

[Black Angel]

And why is it, that the nice guys see this self-destructive cycle. Watch as they get passed over time and time again.

What would happen if this bad boy ever did change? The relationship would get boring. At mentioned before, the woman doesn't want an emasculated man. Therefore, it's time to move on to the next bad boy.

As a result, it would seem to me that the only way for a bad boy to remain in a relationship in the situation is to continue being the bad boy. To always be that unatainable goal. I'm no psychologist, but that sounds like one fucked up relationship.

Nice guys always finish last...... :( :( :(

That's old news. Been there.

[~vjay~]

I just have a knack of being conned, I meet man, man is nice, wants to spend time with me, offers to do things with and for me, pretends he is something he isn't, me being naive thinks he is geniune, move in with such said man, he changes from caring and sharing to inconsiderate, selfish and stupid and prefers to do non family things daily, talks to me 5 minutes a day maximum and doesn't mind I live on the computer because that way I don't demand attention, me feels alone and rejected, me stays for now until I can sort mess out and doesn't like bad boys at all, all I have ever wanted is one of the "nice guys" and haven't found one yet.

Nice guys make me happy and I don't find them boring at all, I love them, bad guys make me despondant, depressed and my feelings die until I feel numb inside, I hate the man I am with, have you guessed yet the above is a very cut down version of my life :(

[technine420]

that was so true.

lizzi, if your ever in boston: im me. i'll buy you all your f-ing drinks. you rock. :drunk:

[enjoi]

I am sorry but what a crock of shit. I can sum up everything you just said in one line.

Dating sucks.

You are looking too hard into the whole dating issue. Everybody goes through this shit. Until you can put this "conquering" behind you and worry about finding a kind person who loves you then you will always be burned. If you are looking for love you won't find it. Bah, this shit is stupid. It is pretty insulting to people who have a relationship that is about loving each other and starting a family and a life together instead of conquering or winning some sort of relationship game.

[tshands]

I propose that there is a difference between being nice and being spineless.
I also propose there is a difference between being bad and being interesting.



vjay... I have all the empathy/sympathy in the world for you - bad relationships are life consuming.

[outlier1985]

This has to be the biggest load I've ever heard.

I've seen enough girls I know go after the 'bad boy,' and each time, they were after one of two things; Sex, or someone they know their parents will not like. It was never about 'taming' anyone. They wanted the 'danger.' I guess that means they like to be slapped around, because that's how it ended up every time anyway.

The worst example of this was my friend Brittany. She went after a bad boy, and she ended up with two kids, a VD, and an abusive husband that beat and raped her several times, often in front of her children.

She eventually got away from the son of a bitch, and met some guy in the marines or whatever, that wanted to support her and raise her kids as his own... but she ditched him for another 'bad boy.'

So really... it's not some noble cause, it's stupidity. I can think of no other word for the things girls like my friend above do to themselves. I felt sorry for her when all that happened to her before, but since she was stupid enough to do it again, I feel no remorse for her.

So yeah... nice guys DO finish last. But if the girl you're after is as dumb as my friend, don't feel too bad about coming in last in the race.

[rick]

I've seen enough girls I know go after the 'bad boy,' and each time, they were after one of two things; Sex, or someone they know their parents will not like.

Sex? Not sure I understand that one. The "bad boy" is a better sex provider... some how I doubt the veracity of that... meh.

raped her several times, often in front of her children.

ok then... moving on...